29 Comments
Oct 31, 2022Liked by Gavin Giovannoni

I am being lazy here so pls excuse the next question: are there any BTKi Ph3 trials ongoing with SPMS patients currently? IF yes, when are we expecting results?

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Yes, Tolebrutinib (Sanofi) and Fenebrutinib (Roche) are studying progressive MS. These trials are still recruiting so the results are ~4 years away.

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Nov 1, 2022·edited Nov 1, 2022

Looked into this and Sanofi have currently paused their Tolebrutinib trial while they trawl data acquired to date (https://www.sanofi.com/en/media-room/press-releases/2022/2022-08-08-17-08-40-2494173).

However, Roche appear to still be recruiting for the Fenebrutinib trial in Glasgow, London, Plymouth & Swansea. Unfortunately, they've stopped recruiting in Nottingham, the closest centre to me (https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04544449#contacts).

I'm currently NEIDA and on no DMT's. I'd rather try something new than do nothing - any suggestions? BTKi does appear to be where it's at currently, if weight of papers is anything to go by.

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What do you mean on no DMT?

Have you been through an IRT protocol previously?

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Hi Tony

Briefly, my MS was misdiagnosed as lumbar spinal stenosis from 2012 and only formally diagnosed as MS in Feb'21. No brain MRI until Nov'20 though I'd had numerous spinal scans. Even then, due to those years in the "wilderness", the MS Consultant could not / would not distinguish SP- or PP- MS, giving a get-out on Meds (Siponimod v Ocrelizumab) and preferred to wait & see (I refute the term "watchful waiting").

4 successive full-contrast MRI's (most recently Oct'22) all suggest NEIDA though my symptoms have worsened significantly. Still EDSS6.0, I'd say in Feb'21 I was borderline 5.5 and now I'm borderline 6.5.

I've been offered nothing! IRT or otherwise. The extent of my meds are Baclofen, paracetamol, and a couple of urology & hypertension prescriptions. If you or anyone else can suggest something relevant and helpful, from approved to untrialled, please speak now...

Graeme

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See my question here: https://multiple-sclerosis-research.org/2022/11/q-a-november-2/?unapproved=147215&moderation-hash=d9ee5b12041d5cb28a84bc7986752d2f#comment-147215

Not all hope is lost. I am sure G is all over this and will be updating us here in due time as well.

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Thanks Tony.

Sanofi have paused recruitment for Ph3 trials for tolebrutinib for Progressive MS cases and besides, I'm 60 and already suffer from lower leg lymphedema, so unlikely to be top of their list :-(

I'm sure there will be others...

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Oct 31, 2022·edited Oct 31, 2022

Great. Thanks

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Oct 31, 2022Liked by Gavin Giovannoni

Prof G thanks so much for the update on ECTRIMS.

I wanted to ask your opinion on RIS and the study you highlighted (if you have time); do you think children of PwMS should be having periodic MRIs and consider treatment if they appear to be at high risk of developing MS? The NHS may never support looking at RIS (given the current challenges) but there are a number of centres that offer discounted/reasonably priced MRIs that may provide options for people.

In terms of drugs do you think using sub-cut cladrabine would be an option for high risk RIS, probably the only affordable (and potentially best) option? Do you think neurologists would be happy to prescribe it (or another drug) off-label?

I had no MS symptoms but following a quick succession of relapses post-menopause I discovered I have probably had MS for years and now, with a moderate lesion load, I am not sure where it will lead in the future. I don't want my children to be in this position if it can be avoided. What would you do if you were in my position?

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Re: Screening children for RIS. I don't think frequent MRIs are warranted. If you are a woman with MS your daughters' only have a ~1 in 40 chance of getting MS and your sons' a 1 in 80 chance. This would lead to a large number of unnecessary MRI scans and a lot of unnecessary anxiety. I think we need a better biomarker for MS than MRI scans. The latter would need to be done as a part of a study to show it worked before being incorporated into clinical practice.

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Many thanks for your response, I wasn't aware ofatumumab was being tested in RIS. I agree it would be anxiety inducing but then we do it for cancers, though I guess the results of cancer screening tests are possibly more accurate than MRIs. Hopefully a better biomarker will be identified soon as I would be really devastated if my children got MS. Thanks again.

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Yes, I think Cladribine would be an ideal drug for testing in RIS. Not sure if you are aware that ofatumumab, an anti-CD20, is being tested in RIS.

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Nov 1, 2022Liked by Gavin Giovannoni

Hi Prof G, any news on remyelination trials?

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Nothing new at ECTRIMS. The last we heard was that Elezanumab was not effective in MS. The paper is apparently due for publication shortly.

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Nov 2, 2022·edited Nov 2, 2022

Thanks for your quick answer! Is there some other trial going on for remyelination that should be in your opinion a game changer? What about NVG-291, Opicinumab, clemastine, digossina for MS? Should in the future mAb 769B10 be tested on humans to fight EBV and put MS in remission?

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Oct 31, 2022Liked by Gavin Giovannoni

I found the Tysabri vs aHSCT results very interesting especially since there are some really prominent voices beating the aHSCT drum so loud that this shows it isn't a magical fix we all want it to be. Also highlighted to me that Tysabri is a very effective treatment option

I would've liked to see more actual announcements on EBV treatments and trials starting

BTK do look very promising

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Oct 31, 2022Liked by Gavin Giovannoni

Hello,

In this update you say 'It is a great pity that when Biogen did the ASCEND trial of natalizumab in SPMS they didn’t extend the trial to 3 years in duration. If they did, we would certainly have natalizumab as a treatment option for SPMS.'

When is someone going to do a 3 year trial to prove the nataliziumab does slow down progression of advanced MS. I suppose the real question is the percentage reduction of disability.

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The difference was significant. Due to therapeutic lag the treatment effect also increases with time. It was better at protecting upper limb function than lower limb function, but I go into the reason behind this in the following Newsletter.

https://gavingiovannoni.substack.com/p/why-is-natalizumab-not-licensed-to#details

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Oct 31, 2022Liked by Gavin Giovannoni

How much do you envisage this helping people with advanced MS?

I was a patient on the ASCEND trial and to give up a day a month for the infusion this required a commitment. Realistically it needs to be taken orally or by a simple injection or it is unlikely to be accepted.

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Natalizumab (Tysabri) is now given by subcutaneous injection, but the EMA still want the injections to be given in hospital that defeats the point of a subcutaneous injection.

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Nov 1, 2022Liked by Gavin Giovannoni

Pre-teens (who are Caucasian and NOT dark-skinned) whose vit D levels are supra-therapeutic may ward off MS and this was published in JAMA 2006 (K Munger et al.) See below,

Among whites (148 cases, 296 controls), the risk of multiple sclerosis significantly decreased with increasing levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D (odds ratio [OR] for a 50-nmol/L increase in 25-hydroxyvitamin D, 0.59; 95% confidence interval, 0.36-0.97). In categorical analyses using the lowest quintile (<63.3 nmol/L) as the reference, the ORs for each subsequent quintile were 0.57, 0.57, 0.74, and 0.38 (P = .02 for trend across quintiles). Only the OR for the highest quintile, corresponding to 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels higher than 99.1 nmol/L, was significantly different from 1.00 (OR, 0.38; 95% confidence interval, 0.19-0.75; P = .006). The inverse relation with multiple sclerosis risk was particularly strong for 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels measured before age 20 years. Among blacks and Hispanics (109 cases, 218 controls), who had lower 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels than whites, no significant associations between vitamin D and multiple sclerosis risk were found.

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This could be reverse causation, i.e. asymptomatic MS may consume vD and lower blood vD levels not the other way around.

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Interesting. How does MS consume vD? I’m baffled that a disease ‘consumes’ vD! Do RA and UC consume vD ?

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Nov 1, 2022Liked by Gavin Giovannoni

One other question i have on BTKs - do they all work the same??

Eg like the class of B cell depleters which mostly work the same way, do the BTKs all "work" in the same way with slight differences or is each method different for each pharma drug.

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They are all meant to work the same, but as some are more potent than others with better CNS penetration, etc. there will be winners and losers.

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Thanks, hopefully that comes out of the trials to see which will be the best

Has there been any insight on the side affects / risks eg PML with BTks?

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Thanks for sharing Prof G. Off topic question, but I'm interested to know if you have any thoughts on fully treated cladribine patients starting a family.. Would these patients benefit from considering a DMT in the postpartum period as a safeguard against relapse?

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Cannot agree w you regarding RIS. There is no such thing as RIS since DIT criteria were not pursued in the original 2009 publication in Neurology. Here goes........Neurology 2009

The cohort consisted of 41 female and 3 male subjects (median age = 38.5, range: 16.2-67.1). Clinical evaluations were performed in 44 patients at the time of initial imaging; longitudinal clinical follow-up occurred for 30 patients, and longitudinal MRI data were acquired for 41 patients. Neurologic examination at the time of the initial MRI scans was normal in nearly all cases. While radiologic progression was identified in 59% of cases, only 10 patients converted to either clinically isolated syndrome or definite MS. The presence of contrast-enhancing lesions on the initial MRI was predictive of dissemination in time on repeat imaging of the brain (hazard ratio [HR] = 3.4, 95% confidence interval [1.3, 8.7], p = 0.01).

Lumbar punctures were performed in 27 of 44 patients and CSF profiles (evaluated at different laboratories) were suggestive of MS in 67% (18/27) of these cases (IgG index 0.7 or 2 unique oligoclonal bands not ob- served in the periphery). Of the CSF cases, 11 (61%) experienced radiologic progression and 8 (44%) developed clinical symptomatology.

Application of McDonald's criteria (2017) requires CSF studies to establish DIT criteria (if MRI data is unrevealing for DIT criteria to establish a diagnostic paradigm) and while CLINICAL criteria ALONE might do the trick, or an MRI 'negative' picture might also bring about a dx of MS, I believe that RIS is truly archaic and to 'treat' RIS (not calling it MS) muddies the already muddy waters. RIS must go.

Jagannadha (Jay) Avasarala.

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Before I comment on the RIS, story, Gavin, please take a moment to read how the term 'pre diabetes' was born or coined. It is impossible to look away; even RIS is the same. When RIS was born in 2009, it cases were not pursued religiously with CSF analysis or imaging of the cord to establish if McDonald criteria (2017) would be applicable and to be talking about an antiquated definition made in 2009 while trying to 'treat' RIS exemplifies the confused mind of an MS clinician, if you ask me. Either a person has MS or not. The rest are all healthy, albeit with different risk profiles. Medicine is full of these 'discoveries' before disease onset.

Science, 2019

https://www.science.org/content/article/war-prediabetes-could-be-boon-pharma-it-good-medicine#.Y2OpWMXg4Xo.mailto

I am sure you will love this article.

Jagannadha (Jay) Avasarala

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